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RE: RV Roof Worx
Hi Canoe,
I have not heard of the RV Roof Works organization. However, I know a fair amount about high-solid silicone roof coatings rated for camper use, and I am willing to share the learnings as needed.
I found what appears to be their website. https://rvroofworx.com
If I found the correct site, there is not enough technical information about the roof coating they plan on using to tell what they are providing. Or how they deal with all the seams, including the gutter rail area.
They are talking about using fabric, which can be a good thing.
They have a picture of a 5-gallon bucket of ASC, (American Standard Coatings) X one coat next to the wording they are using: High-quality one-component moisture curing silicone.
So I looked up ASC and their X one-coat product. Scroll to the bottom of the page and look for the product data sheet for ASC X one coat. https://asc-bm.com/literature/
Reading the data sheet on ASC X one coat, it is an acrylic coating product, not a silicone-based product. They are very different products.
Something is not adding up with the RV Works website info as I read it. It may be a goof on the X one-coat product, as ASC does make silicone roof products. However, I did not see a high-solid silicone coating listed, but they offer a low-solids coating. Again, different formulations for different applications.
The 20-year warranty, well, for the products they are listing, that can be what it is. I'm not knocking the company; they may do good work, and what they provide may last 20 years. There is a need to know more about what they are doing and how they do it to tell much more.
There are other silicone roof coatings with a lot longer warranty rated for RV use; not all silicone-based coatings are RV-rated, so heads up on that part.
I'm unsure if you want to do the coating yourself or have it applied by a company. If you are doing it yourself, there is a learning curve and understanding of the roof preparation needs we can get into. Depending on your situation, a coating may be a good thing or not a good thing to do. I'll leave you with four big-picture statements:
1. Doing a high-solids silicone roof coating on a known or repaired non-leaking roof can be a good thing to create a long-term roof solution that will not depend on the roof caulking. If you want to use a coating to solve existing leaks without repairing the damage under the roof, applying a coating, thinking it will solve all your issues for the long term, is not a good thing to expect. For long-lasting benefits, you should only apply a good coating system on a sound leak-free or leak-damage-repaired roof.
2. I would highly recommend, before any silicone coating is applied to your roof, that after the cleaning process is done, an adhesion test should be done to prove you will have an acceptable bond to spec.
3. Certain "new" roof plastic products can need special prep work to allow the coatings to bond to them. Make sure the adhesion test is done on all new plastic materials.
4. Understand how a repair will be done to your silicone-coated roof when a tank vent, skylight, or roof vent is damaged and must be replaced.
I hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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11/15/23 04:18pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Atwood water heater problem
Please supply the model number and year it was made. It helps us help you with better responses.
Not knowing which vintage you have, if the flame chokes out now and then, it could range from insects nesting in the burner tube to an all-gas control valve acting up (a gas supply issue). If you are on electric ignition, there could be other issues with loose wiring, dirty connections, etc (an electrical issue).
Does the furnace work correctly, and do the range top burners burn smoothly for as long as the water heater runs and then acts up? Need to determine if you have a gas supply/control issue with the heater? If the main tank regulator is acting up, the water heater can follow it. We need to eliminate what does work right and what does not.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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11/08/23 05:26pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are rooftop AC units standardized for mounting?
Measure the old hole in the ceiling will give you some info to compare to more modern day.
The current day standard for a travel trailer/Fifth wheels and some MH's, the RV AC unit is a nominal 14 x 14" square opening. They may be 14 1/8 to 14 1/4" actual.
Yes, rebuild with the structure and wiring in place. That same 14 x 14 nominal fits the standard 14 x 14 crank-up roof vent or powered fan, Maxx Air, Fantastic, etc., brands you can install in the hole if you do not have the AC now but want to add it in the future.
Your camper may have ducted AC in the ceiling of the camper, OR if all the air dumps out from the ceiling directly under the roof unit, it is a nonducted unit. If you have ducted AC, the newer AC unit control systems use both 12 VDC to run the controls and 120 VAC to run the fan and compressor. Some of the older ducted AC units created their control voltage from a transformer on the control PC board, and there was no 12 VDC in that area. Upgrading the AC unit later means you had to find 12 VDC and get it to that location. Both new Dometic and Coleman Mach "non-ducted" units use a simple older analog control that does not use 12 VDC. They use a capillary tube control to switch the compressor on and off. You turn the temp control knob like an older auto heater/AC knob.
Point: If your old AC did not use 12 VDC or have the 12-volt wiring near the opening, run a 15 amp, (14 awg wire) 12VDC + and - wire that will be live all the time and fused to the area while you have the roof apart. Just cap/seal off the wire ends to not short. You can use that same DC line to run a vent fan if you do not want to put the AC unit on now. You will only use some of the 15 amps, more like 3 to 5 amps, but you can tap into an existing circuit using little power that can be 15 amp fused already.
I hope this helps, and good luck with your rebuild. I have done many; it will take a lot of time, and if the roof leaks, the water can follow down the walls. The walls may be wet also from siding opening leaks where ever a screw went through or an opening in the side even if the roof did not leak.
These older camper restorations are a true labor of love.
John
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JBarca
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10/27/23 12:05pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Shocks
I don't know why travel trailer and 5th wheels don't have shocks.Ive searched and found a couple of kits, has anyone installed one of these? They're pretty pricy and I really want to know if it was worth it.
Hi,
If you are on leaf spring suspension and plan on keeping your camper for a long time, shocks are worth it in my opinion when installed correctly.
My camper is 32 ft. long and is now 20 years old since it was made. We bought it used in 2007, and it did not come with shocks. I added them, and back then, there were very few to no kits available, so I made my own. See here for how I mounted my Monro Magnum gas shocks. https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24776971.cfm
This is what shocks did for my camper. Before shocks, any size bump I went over at most any speed above 20 mph, I would get six oscillation cycles up and down of the camper. Just looking in the rearview mirror, you can see the entire length of the camper doing a wave up-and-down cycle effect from the start of the bump. The bigger the bump, the higher the camper flexing, which would last six cycles to tame it back down.
After the shocks were installed, the six cycles went down to one cycle of up and down, and that was it. Yes, that dramatic. The steel frame and camper body flexing were reduced from six to one.
I also went with the rubber equalizer, now using the Trail Aire, but I had the Dexter before that. Both rubber equalizers tame the sudden jolt and bang of force into the suspension when you hit the bump. However, the rubber equalizer will not change the number of camper frame flex cycles. Shocks and the rubber equalizer do different things; both are good things to do to help lower the stress on the camper's body and trailer frame.
Both shocks and the rubber equalizer help the camper last longer by lowering the flexing stress into the trailer frame and the camper's body. If you trade the camper every 3 to 5 years for a new one, you may see less benefit.
Heads up, many shocks are mounted wrong by the RV manufacturer. A shock closer to horizontal will have little effect as opposed to one mounted more vertically like they are intended to be. If you are mounting your shocks, read up on the mounting angle from the shock manufacturers, not the RV manufacturers.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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10/26/23 12:10pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Weight Distribution Shank....2.5" receiver end X 18" Long
john, I am pretty sure that he is talking about the EQUALIZER brand components wich is not a standard WD hitch. Your Reese is a standard WD hitch.
Hi Huntingdog,
Yes, true maybe. I was commenting only about the shank; the Reese shank goes from 2 1/2" down to 2" at the hitchhead. It can be an option as long as the width and hitch head hole spacing work out.
But, if his hitch head uses a washer stack and pin setup for the hitch head tilt, the Reese cast steel shank will not work. The head tilt adjusting pin will fall into the cast slot in the center of the 2" wide portion.
Thanks
John
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JBarca
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10/22/23 10:52am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Weight Distribution Shank....2.5" receiver end X 18" Long
RE:
'23 GMC 3500 4X4, Crew Cab standard bed
2.5" Receiver
I finally got around to setting up my travel trailer and Equalizer WD hitch.
Since my new truck has a 2.5" receiver, I purchased an Equalizer brand shank that is 2.5" on receiver end with a 3" drop and 7" rise. It's 12" long. My tailgate hits the electric jack when I attempt to lower tailgate. Tailgate must be taller than my previous 2003 Ford F350, as I was able to lower tailgate with a 12" long shank on that truck. It may also be that the Ford was a 4X2, or a combination of the two.
Can't seem to source a 2.5" shank that is 18" long, in any drop/rise format. I can find 18” length, but only for 2” receivers.
Anyone run into this issue? What did you do?
Were you able to source a 2.5" receiver end that is 18" long? If so, please share.
I considered using the 2.5” to 2” reducer that came with my truck and purchase the 2”x 18” long shank but have heard that the reducers can oblong or egg shape the truck's receiver from the slop and constant movement when towing heavy trailers.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Hi,
This might help as I have two sizes of 2 1/2" shanks that taper down to 2".
First, you are saying a 12" long shank; what on the shank is 12"? The overall length? OR the center distance from the 5/8" pin to the center of the holes the hitch head goes on?
Here is my setup on my 2005 F350.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4624/25816290058_147a11ab60_o.jpg width=640
Here is the Reese 2 1/2" to 2" shank.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4759/25816268548_e32fb85e3c_o.jpg
Reese part number 54976, the entire shank from end to end is 17 1/2". The distance from the 5/8" pin to the center of the WD head holes is 11 1/2".
I also have the 6" drop shank that is 2 1/2" to 2". Reese part number 54977. It also is 11 1/2" from the 5/8" pin to the WD head bolts.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4607/24819703897_52dce16f01_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4764/38790794495_4dc4a30ba9_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4676/38979592364_07c80a15b9_o.jpg width=640
On my F350, the tailgate does not hit the power tongue jack on either shank. I miss on a Barker 3,500 ball screw power jack and the Atwood 3,500 ball screw jack that is no longer made.
The 2 1/2" adapter to 2". On the Reese system, when that adapter is used, they reduce the allowable tongue weight from 1,700# down to 1,200# max. Yes, the longer 2 1/2" pin is part of the derating.
Will the 11 1/2" 5/8 pin to WD holes help you? Curt makes one, but it is only 8" from the 5/8" pin to WD holes.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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10/21/23 05:45pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Window Problems
I have two problems with one of my windows. The window is the type that slides upward by releasing the catches at the top of the pane and pulling up on the lip (frame).
First problem is that the lip (metal frame) is no longer attached to the glass, and pulling up just separates the frame from the glass. The frame has a u-shaped channel that the glass slips into, and there is a thin length of rubber that wraps over the top of the glass and then the u-channel slips over the rubber and the glass edge.
It doesn't look like any adhesive was used to attach the metal lip to the glass edge. (Maybe that's the cause of the problem.) Has anyone dealt with this problem before? Any suggestions as to what type of adhesive to use? I'm thinking I need to glue the rubber to the glass, and the metal to the rubber.
The second problem with the same window is that the bottom wiper-type seal has shrunken, resulting in a gap between the seal and the glass.
Here is a photo of the seal:
I want to replace the seal. Has anyone done this before? Is it difficult? Any tips?
Would you happen to know the brand of window you have? And ideally, the series number? Krino and Hehr (now both owned by Lippert) were common brands among the older campers.
Also, what year is your camper?
From the word description and the picture you posted, it is hard to understand the brand window you have. I have not yet seen an RV window like what you are describing where the glass is not bonded to the metal frame.
The Krino and Hehr windows I have worked with seal (bonded) the glass to the metal frame. That seal creates the water seal of the glass to the frame. Then, there is a glazing bead of vinyl that inserts into a channel to keep dirt, etc, out of the frame channel. Felt often fills the gaps between the sliding metal frame on the lower section to the outer frame mounted in the wall.
See these pics of a single-hung vertical slider window. Does yours look anything like this? Posting some pics of how the glass is mounted may help someone identify yours.
The window out of the camper during a restoration.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263671433_e169eae9b3_o.jpg width=640
The upper frame fixed pane vinyl glazing bead
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263858925_1ff07a772b_o.jpg width=640
The lower sliding pane vinyl
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263382511_fb3d99b355_o.jpg width=640
It looks like this when installed in the camper
https://live.staticflickr.com/4666/27913363819_7dfb3a96ab_o.jpg width=640
I have used a product called "Parrbond" to seal up gaps in the glass to metal frame seal. This stuff https://www.amazon.com/RV-Motorhome-Joint-Crack-Repair/dp/B007HRX62S. You can shop for a better price, just freight can be as much as the tube of sealant.
It will bond to glass and metal. Also, certain plastics and other materials. It is used to seal water-leaking gaps, not to bond the glass originally to the metal frame around the entire perimeter. It may work for that, but I have no experience using it that way.
John
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JBarca
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10/16/23 03:27pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Furnace Issue
So I'm at the end of my rope. Atwood 8531-iv furnace in a 2005 Max Lite. Furnace started intermittently running ok and then not running at all.
When it didn't run, it would start the fan, ignite the burner, run and pump hot air 5 or 6 seconds, then lose flame and retry two more times doing the same thing and lockout throwing an ignition fault code.
Figured it was probably the flame sensor so I pulled the unit and replaced the ignitor/flame sensor and put a new burner in since I had it out. Ran good for one night, cycling as it should then started doing it's old tricks again.
If I understand how this works correctly, since it's starting up and burning 5 or 6 seconds, it shouldn't be the sail switch or control board.
Am I correct in this assumption and if so does anybody have a clue what else it could be? Also should mention I have a brand new thermostat I just put on.Thanks in advance for any help!
Did you ever get this sorted out? I restore older campers in the age range of yours, and the Atwood 8500 series -IV is common during that time period. See if any of this helps.
You mentioned it threw the flame fault code blinking lights. That is a big key piece of info. A few things:
Your new T stat should not be part of throwing an ignition code. While the T stat could be acting up, opening intermittently, it only pulls the run signal and shuts the furnace down; it is not linked to the ignition code that the control board detected. So this helps rule out the T stat, or if you have the Dometic AC ducted system, the heat interlock in the AC control board could interrupt the furnace run signal.
The ignition code points to the flame sense acting up or the gas supply acting up. If the gas drops out, the flame sense will see it.
Since you changed the igniter, that helps rule out the heavy rust that can form on the male spade connection to the high voltage wire over time and create resistance to mess with the flame sense circuit. BUT, how did the female connector look that joins the new spade connect to the new igniter? If the female end on the cable is really bad, that is a possibility of creating high resistance that the spark voltage can jump through, but the flame sense is having issues.
You mentioned it shouldn't be the furnace control board. Well, not necessarily. Half the board may be working, but the flame sense feedback is not; the board is still suspect, and the connections to the board.
The gas supply, I have had to replace many of the gas valves, but so far, all were due to leaking. I could not pass a 3 or 5-minute leak test with the gauge reading the bleed down. Corrosion in the aluminum valve seat, I believe, is the issue. Too many hot and cold cycles from the winter and the bare aluminum sweats. I passed the test until I fired the valve; then, it would always fail the test. A bubble leak test on the tip of the gas jet confirmed it was leaking. This is on a bench test when servicing the furnace. I have not yet found a valve coil failure, but it is not beyond one of them acting up.
At this point, you are left with this in the order of probability.
1. The PC board is bad, or the connections on the board.
2. The high voltage wire female connection is bad at the ignitor.
3. You have a gas valve issue. You can test the valve with a bench test by doing a bubble leak at the gas nozzle tip. It should not stop blowing bubbles when energized. They do still sell the valve for the IV vintage furnace or did 4 months ago.
4. I never heard of the bad propane messing with the flame sense; that is a new learning.
Let us know how this comes out.
John
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JBarca
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10/05/23 08:07am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Founded in 1928, RV company in Liquidation
Had SunnyBrook 5th wheel had 13 years the only thing replaced was the tires
Our Sunnybrook, bought new in 1994, is still in use by us today. It has been a very comfortable, reliable trailer.:)
Too bad that they too, like the one in the OP, went out of business several years after our purchase.
Barney
Hi Barney,
I thought your SunnyBrook Titan TT was a 2004 model? Just like our 2004 Sunline camper that is still going strong like yours. Or did you gain 10 years on me I can't remember. :B
When you get quality construction to start with, followed by owner-good maintenance practices, it does allow a camper to last. That and understanding how campers can leak and sealing them up not to leak :R.
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JBarca
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10/04/23 11:12am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Bent Frame?
So, I got distracted while hooking up after a weekend out in our 2012 Keystone Passport.
I started to raise the tongue and quickly realized I hadn’t retracted the stabilizer jacks. When I closed the Slide it seemed to catch. Had to work it a bit. (Figured I needed to adjust the cables).
When emptying the black and grey water tanks there was a pretty good leak coming from the valve area. Hard to tell exactly where as the underside is insulated.
The trailer did pull fine coming home with no issues. Could I have bowed the frame like a banana? Or is all this coincidental?
Hi,
You may have a few issues going on at the same time, or they are related. Need some more info to help better. Let's start here,
Having had to deal with camper bent frame rails and slides before, help us with this info as a start.
1. What model camper is your 2012 Passport? The floor plan helps us understand where the slide opening in the camper is in relation to the trailer tires/suspension. Ideally, you can post a picture of the slide side of the camper, with a pic showing from the back wall to the front ball coupler. We can see the relationship between the slide opening, wheels/axles, and the dump piping.
2. When you realized the rear stabilizers were down (and the front too, but they would not hurt, but the back ones could), you stated when you closed the slide, it caught. Tell us, was the tongue jack still up in the air from the initial jacking up when you brought the slide in, and the slide caught? Tell us when the slide came in and where was the tongue jack at that time. Still up high, back down to normal level, etc.
2A, As was asked, how high did you jack up the ball coupler above the level camper to start the hitch-up process when you discovered the jacks were still down? 2", 4", 6" etc. Knowing your floor plan can help as 19 ft camper may have more issues then a 30 ft camper when the tongue is 6" higher then level camper and the jacks are down.
3. You said you thought the cables needed to be adjusted. Heads up, wait to start adjusting the cables until we sort out how the slide caught.
4. Do you know what brand of slide cable drive you have and, ideally, the model of the slide drive? Is it the BAL system?
5. Tell us what caught on the slide when it came in? Examples might be: the lower rear corner, upper rear corner, etc.
6. Regarding the water leak, we need to know how the tank, piping, and dump valve location relates to the tire/axle location. If yours has the cover on, this will be hard to see or know, but I wanted to ask if you know. Do you? Was the leaking water grey or black water, if you could tell? Trying to connect the dots on how high the camper was raised, where the pipes are located, and whether that amount of movement cracks a pipe going into the tank. Since your camper is a 2012 model, it could have some miles on it, pending how they mounted the tanks and pipes into the tanks; normal frame flexing from towing can start a crack in the joint of the discharge pipe going into the waste tank. Your event may have been the last straw to an already fatigued joint. You or we do not know if it is a cracked pipe, but I have repaired cracked pipes going into the tanks due to frame flex over time in just normal higher mileage towing. Generally, the grey tank, the pipe routing, and the pipe straps did not leave any room to flex, so when the frame flexes, the pipe flexes at the joint into the tank. Over time, the joint starts leaking.
Hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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10/04/23 10:58am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Replacing 25 yr old awning hardware
Look at this assembly to see if that is what you have.
Dometic 8500
8500 parts breakdown
Thanks! I'm pretty sure that's it.
Heads up, A&E was into changing the design of the ends caps and the shaft during the approximate time your camper was built. Make sure the end cap and the shaft are the same exact style your awning has. The newer end caps and shaft will not mount on the prior vintage arms.
Also, the front and rear end caps on the tube are not the same part, one has the latch and the other does not.
The end of the awing tube is where the Sunchaser part numbers are for the awning, not on the awning arms. You have to have the awning unrolled to see the model sticker.
Posting pics of what you have really helps.
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JBarca
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10/03/23 07:03am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Replacing 25 yr old awning hardware
Thanks. I'll try to get pictures soon. I don't have the ability to store the trailer at my house, so it may be a few days before I get back to my trailer to take pictures. I do believe it is a Dometic. The whole roller tube with end caps assembly will need to be replaced. I kept the arms, but didn't realize I could reuse the outer roller tube. (I probably could have reused the spring also...)
When I got home, I figured out that the problem started with the lift handle. The pin thats supposed to slide up from the handle wasn't lifting out of the retention hole. When I was trying to get the lift arms to slide, the rod holding the spring tension somehow broke free and released all the tension from the spring. I was thinking I'd just replace all the hardware, but I didn't realize how much it was going to cost me.
It's a 1989 18 foot Terry Resort manufactured by Fleetwood if that helps.
I did find another brand that is currently quite a bit less money. Does anyone know anything about Aleko? It's much less money than any other brand I have found online.
The roller tube, as long as it is not bent, the tube itself can still be used. They are expensive tubes. The last tube I bought for a 19' awing was $362.42, delivered from Dometic on 4/17/19. (Pre-Covid)
The springs and some end caps may be available if the tube is still good. Again, assuming it is a Dometic.
Let's see what you have and we can help better.
John
I have not heard of Aleko, can't help on that brand.
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JBarca
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10/02/23 05:00pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Dometic Gas/Elect Water Heater Sometimes Does Not Work
In our 2019 Lance Truck Camper we have a Dometic GC6AA Gas/Electric water heater. It works fine most of the time but occasionally it will not work on gas or electric. Its an intermittent problem that happened 5 or 6 times back in the summer over a 3 week trip.
The problem is we turn it on inside the camper and nothing happens. It doesn't work on gas or electric. I have been able to get it working by unplugging the two long flat plugs which plug into the module and then plugging them back in.
I suspect one of the terminals is not getting a good connection, but they are are perfectly clean and look brand new.
Any ideas?
Thanks, bradW
Hi, what you are reporting I have seen often with corrosion, even on 1-year-old units.
See this pic, it is an older unit, but you should have the same thermal fuse.
https://live.staticflickr.com/870/40997732884_5d2818ab86_o.jpg width=640
It appears you have tried the PC board connections, (and they can be bad too) but another location I have found is more problematic than the PC board connections.
Look at the brown wire with the red angled connector that plugs into the T Stat. Also at the T stat, is a semi-clear tube, and in the tube looks like a resistor of sorts, but is not a resistor. It is a thermal fuse, a safety device. If a fire breaks out in the outside compartment, it will melt and shut down the system.
They crimp on spade male and female ends on the leads of the thermal fuse. The T stat end has a female end on it and plugs into the T stat. The other end of the thermal fuse has a male end and plugs into the red-angle female connector. The red wire connector end seems to get corroded more than in other locations. It may just be exposed to more moisture, but it is my first go-to place when the PC board plug and unplug does not fix the issue.
If that thermal fuse does not make contact, nothing in the heater, gas or electric, will work. With the system on gas mode, and needing to heat the water, sometimes, you wiggle that thermal fuse connection, and the heater will take off. Be ready for the burner to light when it makes. Then you know that is the problem to clean up.
A quick way to test if the system is working is to flip on the heater gas mode; if you do not hear a "clunk" from the gas valve followed by click click click of the igniter, soon, then you know something is not made, most likely in the safety circuit or the PC board connection. If you are on electric-only mode, you hear nothing and only know it is working 20 - 30 minutes later when there is no hot water.
Hope this helps,
John
PS, Getting the thermal fuse to unplug from the connections can be a bugger. The female ends have a tang inside that grips the male spade hard. Make sure you hold onto the wire connection and wiggle it as you pull. Don't just yank on the clean tube in the middle; odds are you will break the thermal fuse. I use needle nose pliers on the tube ends close to the connection to hold it; it helps.
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JBarca
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10/02/23 12:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Replacing 25 yr old awning hardware
Hi,
Please tell us the make and model of your awning. There are lots of awning makes and models within the make.
Pictures also help explain your damage and what parts may still be available.
I restore older campers and deal with 20 to 25-year-old awnings frequently, mainly the A&E brand by Dometic. Some parts are available, but Dometic is starting to discontinue some of them.
Again, posting pictures of the awning hardware helps. The Dometic A & E Sunchaser series kept changing the end caps on the roller tube and then the mount to the awning arm, often until they got it right, I think. Pic's help us hone in on what vintage you have.
I hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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10/02/23 12:22pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Trying to find a replacement window: 8505-2 (maybe?)
I’m most unsure about the wall thickness, I’ll have to hunt for a place to measure before I pop the old window out.
>> Now sure what you mean you want the same screw holes to line up.
I thought the window would arrive with predrilled holes and I wanted those holes to line up with the existing screw holes in the wall. But I think you’re saying that I’ll be making my own new holes. If that’s the case, then I’ll soon be ready to give it a try.
To measure the wall thickness, take off the inside trim ring (clamp ring). The window should be stuck to the outside wall, but old putty tape may be all dried up and the window fall out too. Have a helper make sure it will not fall out.
Once the trim ring is off, then, using a metal scale, slide it down the side of the rough opening and measure the total wall thickness. There is about 1/8" to 1/4" air space around the window where a metal scale that starts at 0" can slide down past the window and touch the outside flange of the window. You may have to account for the old putty tape on the wall.
And yes, you will cut new screw holes in the new window frame using the clamp ring as a hole template.
If your old window has old dried-up putty tape sealing it to the siding, all that old tape has to come off and be cleaned up on both the frame and the siding. I would "not" use putty tape again to seal it. I would recommend using high-quality commercial steel building butyl tape. If you have a supply house nearby that sells products for pole barns or steel buildings, they most likely will have good butyl tape. 1/8" thick x 1" wide by the roll. I use GSSI (brand) MB-10A butyl tape. There are also other good brands. I would not go to the RV store and ask what they use on windows, odds are high they will give you putty tape. A lower-grade formulation of butyl that trims easily, but does not last very long.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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09/18/23 07:17am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Trying to find a replacement window: 8505-2 (maybe?)
My preference is to be able to find an exact replacement so I can use the same screw holes, but a "close enough" replacement is OK too.
Now sure what you mean you want the same screw holes to line up. A new window unit comes with no screw holes in it. The clamp ring has holes and they use self-drilling screws to mount the new window. The screw cut the new holes in the window unit as they are installed.
This link to a Lippert (LCI) window you posted has never been mounted. I can see the mounting holes in the window frame have never been installed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266295582241
Also, normally any "new" window comes with a new clamp ring sized to fit a certain thickness of wall. That eBay listing calls out the trim ring (AKA clamp ring) to fit a 2" wall. Some sellers may not sell the trim ring with the window and your old one may not work with the new window pending brand and style. And, while you can buy the new window, it may be sold with the wrong trim ring to fit your wall. You have to watch out and verify.
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JBarca
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09/13/23 08:04am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Trying to find a replacement window: 8505-2 (maybe?)
Lippert bought both the Krino and Hehr window companies. Call their customer service dept; they will make and sell you direct a new window.
A few things about RV windows: You will need these dimensions when you call them as a start.
1. The rough opening in the camper wall. They only use the rough opening. They do not use any other sizing as the flanges, etc., change by the style of the window. You will have to remove your existing clamp ring inside the camper and measure it.
2. You need to measure the total thickness of the wall. Again, back to the rough opening, they make the clamp ring to fit your wall thickness.
3. They want to know if it is a vented window, which means it can open. Would you like the screen to come with it?
4. Color: black seems to be the new thing. The campers I work on are white with all-white frames. Many of the window styles have been discontinued in white.
5. There are also drain holes in the bottom of the frames; the top and bottom are often made differently. Ensure you ask where the drain holes are, as this determines the bottom of the window. It will not be good if you turn a horizontal window vertical to mount in the holes as the drains will not work. And visa-versa do not turn a vertical window horizontally.
6. You will need the radius of the corners of the rough opening. While many newer windows use the same radius, not all are the same.
If you are near Elkhart IN, several RV Surplus places sell new windows. New meaning they bought up overruns etc, the windows have never been mounted. The clamp ring may or may not be with it, or they are for the wrong wall thickness. But, they are cheap, a fraction of the cost. The best is to hunt through their piles and find your own.
If your window is a size Lippert has made before, then the cost can be lower. If your is an odd off size, they can still make it; the cost increases.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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09/13/23 07:55am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Bent axle.
Yes, please report back on the findings. Very curious about this. 1/2" toe out, wow...
When looking at the frame behind the rear hangers, look for this. This is in the advanced stages after the frame ratcheted itself down over time, but this lower flange bend is what started my issues after that pothole interstate.
I reinforced the hangers and the lower flange on the outside long ago to remove the I-beam web cracks that can happen with this setup. Mine web never cracked, as I was proactive in reinforcing it. The outside reinforcement helped the outside part of the lower flange resist the deflection, but the inside with where the larger issue started.
The outside of the left rear hanger. The slide room is just above this hanger.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4588/38654197014_f8fce5cf6f_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4643/39332345952_916c786f74_o.jpg width=640
The left rear hanger area inside the frame shows a distorted lower flange. This is a problem if yous have any deflection in this area. Put a straight edge on the lower flange and see if it is straight.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4638/27584979019_2d47876191_o.jpg width=640
Using a straight edge across the area
https://live.staticflickr.com/4597/27585133549_7025d02f19_o.jpg width=640
This amount of bump is a problem that will get worse under normal towing in the future.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4646/39332485702_703ba1d989_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4685/27585131599_8275f3dc50_o.jpg width=640
I hope this helps and you do not have this bent lower flange issue. Bending that heavy axle toed out that far, something big happened or lots of little to medium hits.
John
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JBarca
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07/11/23 07:07pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Bent axle.
Hi 36guy,
You stated this
Fine, we took it upon ourselves to upgrade the suspension with 6000 lb axles, wet bushings and an EZ flex kit. Two years, a few trips, happy happy. Until, we just returned home from a trip to northern british columbia, and somewhere on the way home around 8 hours from home we bent another axle, driver side rear, toed out 1/2 inch eating the tire after 8 hours. I hit nothing, no marks, nothing to show either on truck tires or the front axle. Rough roads, lotsa frost heaves, some unavoidable surprises, but really no clue as how this has happened.
I looked up that model. Is it this one? https://www.granddesignrv.com/travel-trailers/imagine/2600rb
I know that may be a newer model, but is the floor plan the same and the GVWR of 7,850#?
6,000# axle tubes on a camper that small of a trailer should have been overkill, but the dynamic shock into a camper from potholes and other road hazards at highway speeds has damaged campers before.
Was the axle that was bent the rear axle? You did not state that; I gathered that the front axle was not bent, meaning it has to be the rear axle.
By chance, can you post pics of the following?
- The bent axle tube is trying to show the direction of bending.
- Look at the bottom flange on the I-beam frame behind the front and rear hangers. Look for "any," and I mean any distortion on that bottom flange. If that lower flange has any slight bend, please show that in pics.
- A picture of the axle tube sticker, assuming it has one.
- A general picture of how the hangers are mounted to the lower frame flange.
- Confirm what overall height (top to bottom of flanges) of the I beam main frame rail.
While I can't tell you what you may have hit, I may be able to help with what else may be an issue if you actually bent a 6,000# rated axle tube.
I have 2, 6,000# alxe tubes on my 10,000# loaded camper. ( upgraded them from 5,200#) A pothole-laced interstate in NY started to bend my main frame aft of the rear spring hanger. I had 15 miles of living ..ell traped doing 50 mph on a double-lane highway with a semis whizzing by at 70 mph in the left lane. No place to even pull off until the exit came. What the truck missed, the trailer hit. The tire spacing spread is different between truck and trailer.
In my case, I never bent the axle, but the constant jolting of the potholes started lower flange deflection on the main frame just behind the rear spring hanger. And on an I-beam frame, the flanges take most of the load. Once they are compromised, normal towing deflection will keep bending the frame down. After enough miles, the slide no longer fits in the hole in the side of the camper. The hole in the camper wall opening ends up a parallelogram, and the slide room has 4 square corners. When the parallelogram gets to be too much, the slide will not mechanically fit in the hole without tearing into the slide roof.
Suggest you check your frame now for any slight deflection of the lower flange. It can be reinforced before more damage comes.
Also curious, if you were on 3,500# alxes and went to 6,000# axles, did you change the brake drums? 3,500# and 4,400# axles can have 10" brakes. 5,200# and 6,000# axles have 12" brakes. If by odd chance, you have 10" brakes on an actual so-called 6,000# axle, something does not add up. They are not normally made that way; the bearings and spindles are all different.
I am trying to learn from your misfortune.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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07/10/23 09:59pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Water pump short cycling, how to fix
The above reply by wa8xym describes the loss of air cushion in your water heater and where my thought process was headed on your pump issue. When the air cushion is lost, the freshwater system is jammed full of water with no room for heat expansion when the water is heated. When the heater starts up, the pressure can build close to 150 psi and trip the safety relief valve to weep off the excess expansion pressure. If this happens, you can see calcium and mineral buildup on the relief valve discharge port from the weeping. This high pressure will drop off instantly when a faucet is opened as that action burps the system.
Even when the system is cold, if and when the air pocket is gone, even without heating the water, the pump has to hit a dead-end filled system and can trip the pressure switch on the pump.
Is your water heater a Suburban or an Atwood? The Atwood is easy to put a drain valve on; the Suburban, which uses an anode in the drain port, makes it complex to add a drain valve. Even Atwood/Domentic discusses the air cushion loss and relief valve weeping in the heater instructions of the more modern heaters. Your 2004 manual may or may not mention it. Finally, the new Dometic redesigned water heater instructions talk about adding an expansion tank to cure the issues. They did not supply the expansion tank, they tell you to add it.
This is an age-old issue in the RV industry. If they would add an expansion tank from day one, the problem would not exist until the bladder leaked in the accumulator then there is no expansion left once again
Hope this helps and let us know how this comes out. Check your relief valve on the water heater for mineral buildup also.
John
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JBarca
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06/26/23 12:41pm |
Tech Issues
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